Eventually, a brave staffer at Ms., in their later years, commissioned a story from me on the Monica Lewinsky biography, during Bill CLinton’s term. I was very glad to, but the story came THIS CLOSE to being killed, not bc of my take on Monica, but rather bc of the staff members who were still in terror of Dworkin’s disapproval. I had to be the villain for them, it was like the walls of Jericho would come down if they relented. Oh boy.
Being a non-cable household, I probably won't get to see the documentary unless it somehow pops up on Y*ut*be.
But one thing I will say about Ms. Magazine is, well, back in the early seventies, at least in my corner of middle America, if you wanted any kind of printed news that wasn't mainstream, you had to find an underground newspaper. The quality, reliability and frequency of those publications varied wildly, and you had to go to your local headshop (or maybe record shop) to find them. Ms, on the other hand, could be found at almost any newsstand, at least once it had been around for a little while..
Crash someone’s else’s house! ;-) I think you’d really like to see it. But yeah, i hear you, I am constantly scanning for old favorites to migrate to YT.
Loved hearing this. I should have a look at the documentary despite the antipathy I had to 80’s MS’s shoulder-pads feminism. Lean in to the work place! Was very sorry to hear that story about how MS wouldn’t give a miserable classified ad to Good Vibrations while they were busy killing their readers with Virginia Slims.
Susie, those anti-pron types made me feel SO guilty. When I was parroting their line about porn harming women, I made my poor first amendment loving mother cry. Oh, and you know I snuck off to the Bascom Theater to see The Budding of Brie, a ‘50’s set XXX version of All About Eve. Gasp, what if I got seen from someone on the other side of the mountains!
I was perhaps not the targeted demographic for On Our Backs, but it lifted such a load of guilt when I first saw it at Naked Eye Video on Haight. Thanks for what you and your friends did, at the cost of threats and misunderstanding.
You know I love it when you ramble on topics like this. When you said “the turn of the century” it jolted me. All this stuff happened “back in the 1900s!” Holy shit, that makes me feel old!
Oh, and I have to laugh at the “empathetic lesbians.” What?!!! I’m giggling my way to sleep.
Lindsy Van Gelder is one of the Ms. magazine early staffers, who was interviewed in the doc. She wrote me yesterday: “ Wow, Sudsy Susie, I had no idea! Great pic. As for lesbianism in the documentary…one of my best friends had the same reaction as you, that it’s basically insane to talk about that era and not talk about lesbians. But the way they [the producers] structured the documentary format was to focus on iconic Ms. cover stories. And- duh- there was NEVER, in all those years, a cover story on lesbians. The odd article, sure; which always brought on ad cancellations. But not a single cover story. Black women were featured on a couple of covers (which meant being banned in the South and so it wouldn’t happen again for awhile). But lesbians didn’t even get that far.
Re: the photo of Koko and Deb, in the playful “Naughty Mariette” pose: Honey Lee shot these photos for Kathy Andrew, leather tailor/designer extraordinaire, who started a company called Stormy Leather, specifically for women to buy erotic leather pieces (clothes, toys, etc).
Kath wanted to make her first ‘mail order catalog,’ and her fans/friends— all dykes of course— wanted to help! The models, Koko and Deb, were both talented dancers, among other things, they knew how to model for the camera. They worked in the SF strip club scene, and both a big part of our lesbian burLEZk shows we used to throw South of Market.
Debi was my partner at On Our Backs, the founder/publisher. Koko was a butch woman working “in drag” in her straight strip club life. When she’d do dyke dance shows, she’d fool around with the props and costumes more androgynously, mix and match.
Anyway, we had a lot of fun with this shoot, as it was both an homage but also a light satire of how high fashion and high kink are portrayed in the straight world. Which is, if you don’t know, COMPLETELY male-dominated. And it was such a tribute to Kathy’s design, which it can be said without exaggeration, revolutionized fashion among young women in the day, especially in San Francisco.
This Stormy Leather story is not going to be the main point of a Ms documentary, of course— never meant to be. But the producers PICKED this particular photo because it was so outstanding and they were fascinated that it was lesbian art. I wish the photographs had been referred to as lesbian work, rather than slotted, un-named, in a discussion about what is “degrading to women.” bitch, please.
Thank you so much for your kind words Susie. This was absolutely a memorable day for me, and I’d say the heart of the whole shoot, was focused on both lesbian art as well as being positive about lesbian sexuality. Of course the items photographed would also be bought by men as well as women, but the difference with the images that Honey Lee produced, was that they came from a stance of a female gaze. Not to mention Koko and Debbie were fantastic models. We certainly all laughed enough and enjoyed ourselves despite it being a lot of work with a lot of outfit changes. Honey Lee really drew out the best in these two women (and dare I say, what they were wearing), so it’s disheartening to think that this beautiful image would be thrown up on the screen in the context of it being tawdry in this way. It’s not the first time we’ve come across this when people have no concept of what the photographer was trying to do, or indeed the context of the shoot. But to me it’s a lack of sex positivity that is disappointing to see thirty five plus years later. Still, you and I won’t forget it nor the great work Honey Lee produced that day.
Dear Susie, I thought you hit many nails on the head in your insightful analysis of Dear Ms. I was frankly disappointed by the doc, which seemed like a bunch of people apologizing for things with one exception.
What bothered me was the only segment that worked for me was the one on spousal abuse which had Ms. going after a problem that affected many women across the country,
The documentary would have been much better if they treated Ms.'s issues as reflective of the issues and problems that faced the women's movement during the 70s.
The lack of black writers and editors on Ms. mirrored the problem Black women faced with the Feminist movement. Flo Kennedy had to threatened to leave NOW, an organization she helped launch, because of the lack of Black representation. She even encouraged Eleanor Holmes Norton to create a separate Black women's organization in protest.
Ms.'s problem with lesbians mirrored similar issues with the Feminist movement. Betty Friedan is notorious for trying to ban lesbians from NOW, which resulted in Ti-Grace Atkinson's famous ``Lavender Menace'' demonstration.
Gloria fought with Flo to stop Friedan's efforts at NOW to ban lesbians, and later trans women, Why didn't Gloria do more at Ms. to address the lesbian issue?
I was especially disappointed by the porn section. Annie Sprinkle had posted on Facebook about her participation in the doc. I was thinking she and other members of Club 90 would get their due. Instead the segment was dominated by Dworkin, who came across as thinking all women are no more intelligent than children.
From Veronica Vera's writings and the Candida Royale bio, Club 90 people were treated like homeless persons by the Ms. staff, refusing to meet with them. The documentary should have been more honest on the way Annie and others were treated back then,
Putting the documentary aside, I want to thank you for pointing out how many feminist battles were led by lesbians. One of my heroes is Priscilla Alexander who was a lesbian who fought to protect sex workers and improve their lives. However, she never turned a trick.
Priscilla worked with Margo St. James and really shined on her own when Margo moved to France. Priscilla was once asked in an interview why she advocated for sex workers despite no experience as one. She replied: ``As a lesbian I know what it is like to be repressed, abused and denied my rights. How can I fight for lesbians and not fight equally for other repressed groups of women.'' Priscilla was a great friend who taught me about the Gay Lesbian movement.
Eventually, a brave staffer at Ms., in their later years, commissioned a story from me on the Monica Lewinsky biography, during Bill CLinton’s term. I was very glad to, but the story came THIS CLOSE to being killed, not bc of my take on Monica, but rather bc of the staff members who were still in terror of Dworkin’s disapproval. I had to be the villain for them, it was like the walls of Jericho would come down if they relented. Oh boy.
Being a non-cable household, I probably won't get to see the documentary unless it somehow pops up on Y*ut*be.
But one thing I will say about Ms. Magazine is, well, back in the early seventies, at least in my corner of middle America, if you wanted any kind of printed news that wasn't mainstream, you had to find an underground newspaper. The quality, reliability and frequency of those publications varied wildly, and you had to go to your local headshop (or maybe record shop) to find them. Ms, on the other hand, could be found at almost any newsstand, at least once it had been around for a little while..
Crash someone’s else’s house! ;-) I think you’d really like to see it. But yeah, i hear you, I am constantly scanning for old favorites to migrate to YT.
Loved hearing this. I should have a look at the documentary despite the antipathy I had to 80’s MS’s shoulder-pads feminism. Lean in to the work place! Was very sorry to hear that story about how MS wouldn’t give a miserable classified ad to Good Vibrations while they were busy killing their readers with Virginia Slims.
Susie, those anti-pron types made me feel SO guilty. When I was parroting their line about porn harming women, I made my poor first amendment loving mother cry. Oh, and you know I snuck off to the Bascom Theater to see The Budding of Brie, a ‘50’s set XXX version of All About Eve. Gasp, what if I got seen from someone on the other side of the mountains!
I was perhaps not the targeted demographic for On Our Backs, but it lifted such a load of guilt when I first saw it at Naked Eye Video on Haight. Thanks for what you and your friends did, at the cost of threats and misunderstanding.
Oh yeah, it’s such a “journalism” story, so wild in its early days, you would love it.
You know I love it when you ramble on topics like this. When you said “the turn of the century” it jolted me. All this stuff happened “back in the 1900s!” Holy shit, that makes me feel old!
Oh, and I have to laugh at the “empathetic lesbians.” What?!!! I’m giggling my way to sleep.
What a fun bedtime story this was. Thank you!
Lindsy Van Gelder is one of the Ms. magazine early staffers, who was interviewed in the doc. She wrote me yesterday: “ Wow, Sudsy Susie, I had no idea! Great pic. As for lesbianism in the documentary…one of my best friends had the same reaction as you, that it’s basically insane to talk about that era and not talk about lesbians. But the way they [the producers] structured the documentary format was to focus on iconic Ms. cover stories. And- duh- there was NEVER, in all those years, a cover story on lesbians. The odd article, sure; which always brought on ad cancellations. But not a single cover story. Black women were featured on a couple of covers (which meant being banned in the South and so it wouldn’t happen again for awhile). But lesbians didn’t even get that far.
Re: the photo of Koko and Deb, in the playful “Naughty Mariette” pose: Honey Lee shot these photos for Kathy Andrew, leather tailor/designer extraordinaire, who started a company called Stormy Leather, specifically for women to buy erotic leather pieces (clothes, toys, etc).
Kath wanted to make her first ‘mail order catalog,’ and her fans/friends— all dykes of course— wanted to help! The models, Koko and Deb, were both talented dancers, among other things, they knew how to model for the camera. They worked in the SF strip club scene, and both a big part of our lesbian burLEZk shows we used to throw South of Market.
Debi was my partner at On Our Backs, the founder/publisher. Koko was a butch woman working “in drag” in her straight strip club life. When she’d do dyke dance shows, she’d fool around with the props and costumes more androgynously, mix and match.
Anyway, we had a lot of fun with this shoot, as it was both an homage but also a light satire of how high fashion and high kink are portrayed in the straight world. Which is, if you don’t know, COMPLETELY male-dominated. And it was such a tribute to Kathy’s design, which it can be said without exaggeration, revolutionized fashion among young women in the day, especially in San Francisco.
This Stormy Leather story is not going to be the main point of a Ms documentary, of course— never meant to be. But the producers PICKED this particular photo because it was so outstanding and they were fascinated that it was lesbian art. I wish the photographs had been referred to as lesbian work, rather than slotted, un-named, in a discussion about what is “degrading to women.” bitch, please.
Thank you so much for your kind words Susie. This was absolutely a memorable day for me, and I’d say the heart of the whole shoot, was focused on both lesbian art as well as being positive about lesbian sexuality. Of course the items photographed would also be bought by men as well as women, but the difference with the images that Honey Lee produced, was that they came from a stance of a female gaze. Not to mention Koko and Debbie were fantastic models. We certainly all laughed enough and enjoyed ourselves despite it being a lot of work with a lot of outfit changes. Honey Lee really drew out the best in these two women (and dare I say, what they were wearing), so it’s disheartening to think that this beautiful image would be thrown up on the screen in the context of it being tawdry in this way. It’s not the first time we’ve come across this when people have no concept of what the photographer was trying to do, or indeed the context of the shoot. But to me it’s a lack of sex positivity that is disappointing to see thirty five plus years later. Still, you and I won’t forget it nor the great work Honey Lee produced that day.
Thanks for the red flag Susie ❤️
Dear Susie, I thought you hit many nails on the head in your insightful analysis of Dear Ms. I was frankly disappointed by the doc, which seemed like a bunch of people apologizing for things with one exception.
What bothered me was the only segment that worked for me was the one on spousal abuse which had Ms. going after a problem that affected many women across the country,
The documentary would have been much better if they treated Ms.'s issues as reflective of the issues and problems that faced the women's movement during the 70s.
The lack of black writers and editors on Ms. mirrored the problem Black women faced with the Feminist movement. Flo Kennedy had to threatened to leave NOW, an organization she helped launch, because of the lack of Black representation. She even encouraged Eleanor Holmes Norton to create a separate Black women's organization in protest.
Ms.'s problem with lesbians mirrored similar issues with the Feminist movement. Betty Friedan is notorious for trying to ban lesbians from NOW, which resulted in Ti-Grace Atkinson's famous ``Lavender Menace'' demonstration.
Gloria fought with Flo to stop Friedan's efforts at NOW to ban lesbians, and later trans women, Why didn't Gloria do more at Ms. to address the lesbian issue?
I was especially disappointed by the porn section. Annie Sprinkle had posted on Facebook about her participation in the doc. I was thinking she and other members of Club 90 would get their due. Instead the segment was dominated by Dworkin, who came across as thinking all women are no more intelligent than children.
From Veronica Vera's writings and the Candida Royale bio, Club 90 people were treated like homeless persons by the Ms. staff, refusing to meet with them. The documentary should have been more honest on the way Annie and others were treated back then,
Putting the documentary aside, I want to thank you for pointing out how many feminist battles were led by lesbians. One of my heroes is Priscilla Alexander who was a lesbian who fought to protect sex workers and improve their lives. However, she never turned a trick.
Priscilla worked with Margo St. James and really shined on her own when Margo moved to France. Priscilla was once asked in an interview why she advocated for sex workers despite no experience as one. She replied: ``As a lesbian I know what it is like to be repressed, abused and denied my rights. How can I fight for lesbians and not fight equally for other repressed groups of women.'' Priscilla was a great friend who taught me about the Gay Lesbian movement.
Regards Mitch Tropin
Mitch, thank you so much. I feel the same. And yes, I miss dear Priscilla! So eloquent.